creationist/theist: "how could the entire universe simply pop into existence magically for no reason at all?"

atheist: "how could *God* magically pop into existence magically for no reason at all?"

how long are the days in the creation story in genesis?

if you're a christian apologist trying to consolidate evolution into the literal creation story (which cant be done) then one day would be approximately (4,500,000,000-6000)/7 = 642,856,286 years long.

conversation between me and my tbm mormon friend

his comments begin with ">". my response comes beneath that line.
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> I believe that the world is surrounded by proof that God does exist. Alma 30:44 - "...all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator."

because things exist, god exists? how about the dairy cow or the dog or giant strawberries or...? these are things designed by man. because something exists doesnt equate to PROOF that there is a supernatural god, yahweh--one of a thousand different gods we have "scriptures" about.

> God does exist. My belief in Him does not take away freedom or pursuit of happiness. My belief system does not infringe on others ability to believe how they wish. I believe that others have the God given right to believe and worship how they choose. My understanding doesn't remove or impose upon the free will of others.

one word: prop8

> God does exist

stating something as a fact doesnt make it true, even though boyd packer tells you so:
"A testimony is found in the bearing of it." (from "The Candle of the Lord," Ensign, Jan. 1983, pp. 54-55)

this implies:
If you don't know whether something [we Mormons teach] is true, just bear your testimony of it anyway, as if you knew it, and eventually you will come to find that you 'know' it.

this is called self-brainwashing.

> The creation of life cannot be explained by science. Sure, there might be a process explained through the use of combining DNA from a man and DNA from a woman. Chromosomal Pairs from each combining to form a new entity that then begins to replicate and "create" a new human. But how does science explain how each individual body part is created through that replication process.

science can sure explain A LOT about the creation of life and is finding out new information all the time. what is religion doing: god created life. period.? doctors and scientists know how to clone biological organisms, regrow tissue and manipulate the human body in many ways. you can technically choose the gender of your baby these days. geneticists KNOW how cells reproduce based on genetic encoding.

> Science does explain some things, but it has the inability to explain all things. That is why both Science and Faith are important.

you keep trying to marginalize science, when religion explains nothing. saying "a miracle happened" explains NOTHING. saying "god created the universe" explains NOTHING. every comfort and technology you have is the product of the scientific process.

> I take that same understanding through science, combine it with my faith and knowledge of God, and increase my peace and understanding.

sorry, but this sounds really pompous.

> I do not impose my belief system on others.

missionary work, temple ordinances for the dead, indoctrination of children. can your kids stay home from church whenever they want to?

> Neither of us will ever be persuaded by the other.

tell me something persuasive =)

the case for a creator

in the movie the case for a creator there is something im having a hard time grasping:
they propose that darwinism cannot be true because:
a) if you put everything needed for life into a test tube, you cant generate life
b) the cambrian explosion, lack of evidence in the fossil record (but this has nothing to do with this post)

Q. how can they then propose that the universe had a beginning, that all matter in the universe came from nothing (the singularity theory) when they just proposed that life on earth couldnt have come from nothing?

god would have to exist outside of the universe then.

update: i watched more and yes they said exactly what i was thinking, they are proposing god exists outside of the universe and that he created it out of nothing.

this goes against the conservation of energy. singularity theorists would have to change their theory and say that god created the universe out of something else, but not from nothing.

but then i found this page, evidence for the big bang where it says that it is not a contradiction.

update 20100331113500:
i finally finished watching the whole video. probably the biggest thing i got out of the video was that most (all?) information we can find on earth can be traced back to some form of intelligence that created it, so what does that imply about information contained in dna? good food for thought.

one thing i didnt like about the video was lee strobel's assumption that since there might be a god, then christianity is true. he said something as a fact in the movie which i thought was pretty ridiculous: "god himself is invisible, he is a spirit..." (~ 55:20)
where the *heck* did this come from? strobel goes from investigating the case for a creator to then concluding that god does exist, god is a *he* AND he is invisible and is a spirit? pretty unscientific conclusion to an otherwise interesting semi-scientific investigation.