death to "allah's" and muhammad's enemies!

koran, surah 5:33

The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive
to create mischief in the land is death or crucifixion or the cutting off their hands and
feet from opposite sides or exile from the land based on the gravity of their offense.
This will be their humiliation in this world and in the Hereafter they will have grievous
punishment,[33]

this message has been brought to you by islam--the "religion of peace"

there's no "moderate" islam according to the koran

cherry picking teachings to follow is not allowed for muslims according to the koran in surah 4:150-151:

Those who deny Allah and his Messenger and those who intend to draw a line between Allah and His Messengers saying: "We believe in some, and reject the rest" - desiring to take a middle way between belief and unbelief [150] - these are the real unbelievers and We have prepared for such unbelievers a humiliating punishment.[151]

islam: painful punishment for apostasy (muslims who reject their faith)

koran, surah 4:137-139:

As for those who accept the faith then renounce it, who again embrace it and again deny
it, and go on increasing in unbelief, Allah will neither forgive them nor guide them to
the Right Way.[137] Announce the painful punishment to those hypocrites[138] who
choose the unbelievers to be their protectors rather than believers.

teachings like this are dangerous because they can be interpreted in many, potentially dangerous ways.

sam harris on islam - the last word with lawrence o'donnell

sam harris on islam - the last word with lawrence o'donnell

04:03 sam harris: islam is at a very different moment in its history and it's as though we're encountering the christians of the 14th century, armed with 21st century weapons. we have a real problem with islam and it's not an accident that we're not having this conversation about the amish or quakers or jains or even buddhists. ideas have consequences and the idea that you can get to paradise by dying in the defense of the faith, in fact dying in the defense of the faith is the best thing that can possibly happen to you--that is a mainstream notion in islam.

04:37 lawrence o'donnell: is there any lesson in how catholicism worked its way through its homicidal phase of a couple of centuries, for present day islamic extremists?
sam harris: yes, the problem is that we just dont have 500 years to work it out. we were burning heretics alive for 5 centuries in europe and it's understandable, based on a certain reading of the bible. we have incredibly destructive technology spreading all over the world and it's getting increasingly easy for one person to screw up life for millions. and so i think we have some decades at best, to get straight about this and to build a viable, global civilization that is compatible with human well-being and religious demagoguery of any kind is the worse piece of software to have running on your brain when it comes to actually engage that challenge.

islam vs muslims

the best thing to do is keep the focus on islam, the religion, the political ideology. to say that "there's no such thing as a peaceful muslim" is to set yourself up for failure. what you can prove is that the koran encourages violence and is full of contradictory teachings (read about the problems with islamic/quranic abrogation). this makes the koran dangerous because there is plenty of room for different interpretations. islam doesnt have a living prophet; it isnt organized in the sense that there are many different sects, but what they all have in common is the koran and the potential to interpret it in a way that brings about fatal consequences. we cannot let islam sneak into our governments and into our laws.


jeg tror det er best å holde fokuset på religionen/ideologien *islam*. å si "det finnes ingen fredelige muslimer" er å starte en kamp du ikke kan vinne. det som kan bevises er at koranen oppfordrer til vold og er full av motsigelser (les om problemer med "abrogation"). dette gjør at koranen er farlig fordi det er masse rom for forskjellige fortolkninger. islam har ingen levende overhode/profet, er ikke organisert i den forstand at det finnes mange forskjellige sekter, men det alle har felles er koranen og potensialen til å tolke den på en måte som fører til dødelige konsekvenser og vi KAN IKKE tillate at islam sniker seg inn i regjeringen og inn i lovverket.

If anyone changes his [islamic] religion, kill him

The Qur'an commands your death for leaving Islam (4:89 calls for the murder of renegades from the faith), and Muhammad is explicit in a hadith: "If anyone changes his religion, kill him" (Bukhari).

the "official english translation by dr. rashad khalifa" says "only in war":

[4:89] They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.

but the yusuf ali, pickthall, palmer and rodwell translations say "kill them wherever you find them":

[4:89] ... But if they turn renegades, Seize them and slay them Wherever ye find them; ...

pickthall:

if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them

palmer:

but if they turn their backs, then seize them and kill them wheresoever ye find them,

rodwell:

If they turn back, then seize them, and slay them wherever ye find them;

its not difficult to see why the khalifa version is the "official" version =)

Q. i wonder what the literal translation of the arabic actually says?

وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا

i went to what i would expect to be the official islamic website for the world:
islam.org

i was redirected to islamcity.com

i clicked on quran search and searched for "slay them" and found 4:89:

and if they revert to [open] enmity, seize them and slay them wherever you may find them

ill take this M Asad version as the "official" version since it was the default search preferences.:
seize them and slay them wherever you may find them

Message of the Qur'an
Muhammad Asad (Tra...

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